"Lord of the Flies" by William Golding Guiding Question # 1

1/17/2014

Mr. Holder

1/17/2014 06:03:11 am

Guiding Question # 1:

When Piggy first confides his nickname to Ralph, he asks Ralph not to tell anyone. Later, when the boys are gathered together, Ralph betrays Piggy:

"You're talking too much," said Jack Merridew. "Shut up, Fatty."
Laughter arose.
"He's not Fatty," cried Ralph, "his real name's Piggy!"
"Piggy!"
"Piggy!"
"Oh, Piggy!"
A storm of laughter arose and even the tiniest child joined in. For the moment the boys were a closed circuit of sympathy with Piggy outside: he went very pink, bowed his head, and cleaned his glasses again.

What does Ralph's revelation about Piggy's name suggest to you about the basic nature of young people? Are they intentionally cruel to each other or just inconsiderate?

Share your own thinking, but use evidence from the first three chapters of the text to support your argument.

Tony Marquez ~

1/18/2014 08:54:16 am

Many grown ups think that children are plain angels whenever it comes to playing with other children and friends ,however, that is not true. Children at a young age are very inconsiderate and tend to get carried away saying things that are jus simply cruel but aren't aware of the effects or impacts it can have on the other children. In the novel, Lord of the Flies by William Golding, Ralph is very inconsiderate when he betrays Piggy saying his real name to the rest of the boys that are stranded on the island with them. The fact that Ralph revealed his real name was very inconsiderate because the boys were not thoughtful enough and laugh alongside with Ralph. It is also in bad manner when the boys kept on calling Piggy by his real name. The boys are not thoughtful and caring enough to quit calling Piggy by his real name and simply just ask what he would rather be called so that he is not sentimental and hurt by being called Piggy. Later in the story Ralph comes to his senses that calling Piggy by his real name really offends and insults him therefore, it is caring of him that he does apologize for revealing his name and not being aware that he got hurt by the excruciating act of unkindness of revealing his name. Overall, The revelation of Piggy's real name by Ralph was just simply inconsiderate at the moment but changed later on when he apologized for his mistake. Therefore, children are not just angels that are always behaving at times they can be very inconsiderate towards others but are not just cruel because they can apologize like the way Ralph did.

Anahi Figueroa

1/22/2014 09:31:27 am

Tony,
I agree with your argument. Children seem to acquired an unsympathetic personality toward other children. However, do you think society or parents are responsible for this cruel torture toward innocent children? Nature v.s Nurture? Do you think this it's adequate to judge society on the external outlook? Do you think the image of a person is shaping society?

Claudia Vera

1/20/2014 04:55:19 am

With the conversation that Piggy and Ralph had, it shows that young people are inconsiderate. "They used to call me 'Piggy.' Ralph shrieked with laughter. He jumped up. Piggy! Piggy! Ralph-please!"(page 11) Piggy doesn't want Ralph to call him Piggy because they used to call him that when he was at school. However, Ralph seems to no care and keeps calling by Piggy. When Ralph and Piggy meet the other kids in the island,they are introducing each other, and when it comes to Piggy the kids call him Fatty. The kids laugh. Yes, Ralph defends Piggy by saying that his name is not Fatty, however Piggy is still put down because he doesn't want to be called by 'Piggy' or 'Fatty.' Also, the way that Piggy told the others that one of the kids was missing. It seem that no one care about it. They carry on with their usual manners without looking for the lost one. Therefore, children are inconsiderate when it comes to others people feelings. They never care of how their friends feel. Only the way that one itself feels.

Angel Salazar

1/23/2014 11:54:18 am

I agree with your statement Claudia, the kids are always putting or finding a way to put piggy down, even though piggy clearly defends himself.The littluns see the older kids (Ralph & Jack) making fun of piggy so they themselves join in on it as well.This clearly shows how the young kids are inconsiderate about what they say, but wat about yhe older ones?

Alyssa Welch

1/23/2014 10:43:06 pm

Although I agree with some of what you say Claudia, the majorty of you seems to find children are inconsiderate and intentionally cruel to one another, but kids don't really understand any better. Kids grow up in a society in which the majority are raised with what there parents believe. They don't get to make there own opinions because they are raised with adults opinions and they start to believe those with out making there own experiences. Kids are born innocent but grow up to be humans. Humans crave the power over one another.

Anahi Figueroa

1/20/2014 09:24:43 am

Society has influence children to start judging over the exterior look rather than the interior outlook. In, “Lord of the Flies”, by William Golding, the narrator describes cruelty of bullying. Therefore, children are intentionally cruel toward “different” children. At the beginning of the chapter, Piggy trusts Ralph with his cruel nickname. Ralph doesn’t consider the true friendship and betrays Piggy’s trust.
Throughout society, children are portrayed as innocent, pure, and angelic, but actually children are manipulative, cruel, and evil. For example in Stephen King’s, “Suffer the little Children,” and “Night Of the Living Dead”, both authors suggest that children are not innocent at all, but the contrasting character. Society comes to understand children as sacred and pure. On the other hand, children are pure evil. Furthermore, Ralph intentionally embarrasses Piggy to get accepted into the “click”. Piggy gets humiliated and comes to a conclusion that the nature of young people is to criticize the artificial look. To this day, this story is repeated from century to century. In, “Lord of the flies”, the narrator addresses the awful and unmentioned truth of the sanity of children. Children are cruel and evil to each other, and as a society we picture children as perfect and sane, but actually there are two sides to a person: front staged and back staged. Golding’s, “Lord of the Flies”, suggests that children are cruel and untruthful.

Sarah M.

1/23/2014 03:34:38 am

Do you really think Ralph was being intentionally cruel, or could it be that while he was swimming, he was only half listening to Piggy or not at all? Define evil. What makes one evil and why? Could the children be acting the way they are because they're boys and don't want the others to see that really they're scared? How does "Lord of the Flies" suggest that children are untruthful?

Asia Shields

1/24/2014 07:44:58 am

-Sarah: I also agree with your questions about Anahi 's quote.
-Anahi: You need to be a little more specific when you're explaining things, so people don't get left with these questions.

Karol Martinez~

1/20/2014 11:21:33 am

Ralph's revelation about Piggy's name suggests that young people are generally intentionally cruel. When you are young, you find a need to be liked and find a satisfaction in having the support of others- its human nature. Just as is human nature to pick on someone who is below us. This is where bullies come from. Someone who is popular yet feared due to his ability to humiliate others, and liked because of certain characteristics- maybe appearance, intellectual ability or charisma have the ability to be cruel without making it seem so . Young people who have both these characteristics are an example that the basic nature of young people is to be intentionally cruel. If you have the chance to be liked by many by humiliating one, what is it to that person how that one individual feels when you have the support of more than one? Throughout the three chapters there are many times when Piggy is humiliated by Ralph and Jack and all the kids just follow on laughing. Both Ralph and Jack do so to make themselves feel powerful which reveals the basic nature of young people, they are intentionally cruel.

Shanel Francisco

1/20/2014 01:06:20 pm

"Lord of the Flies" by William Golding suggests that young people are intentionally rude to one another rather than just inconsiderate. So far in the story, Ralph is the leader of the group, the alpha, anyway that there is to put it. Leaders love the feeling of being in control, and in this case, being in control means being liked. By revealing to the other children Piggy's name, he is almost automatically admired by the other children's ignorance. Young people don't watch what they say, and at first, Ralph probably didn't mean to be hurtful. But, after betraying Piggy's trust didn't seem to care. Ralph revealing Piggy's name suggests that the nature of children are intentionally rude and discourteous. After Ralph realizes that more of the young ones like him, he could honestly care less about Piggy just like all adolescent kids. Thus proving that young kids are intentionally cruel to others.

Claudia Vera

1/22/2014 12:45:40 pm

I agree with you. When children have more friends, they are not afraid of losing one because of their confidence that they can get more friends. Ralph is over taken by the fact that he is in control of the group. In which he will care less of hurting a person, and care about having the ability of taking over the group. Along these lines, i agree that kids are intentionally cruel.

Ethan Adams

1/24/2014 06:49:39 am

Shanel, I agree that by betraying Piggy got tge others to like him more, but when it comes to doing it for leadership it makes little sense. A leader, a good one anyway, has as much respect for his followers that they have for him. It was overall an act of plain inconsideracy.

Kayla Prieto

1/21/2014 12:21:35 am

Ralph's revelation about Piggy's nickname suggests that young people are insonsiderate. In "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding, Ralph reveals Piggy's nickname to the other boys, and they start laughing at piggy once again. At the moment, the boys dont realize that those types of nickname can break someone on the inside. Young people arent good at expressing their feelings especially when there hurt. Thats why piggy kinda just put his head down and cleans his glasses . Ralph did betray piggy but he didnt realized it. He only revealed his nickname so that other boys could know that his in charge and to act cool. They think of it as having fun and messing around but in reaality there just insconsiderate. They dont look at it as bullying or hurting others, because in a young persons life those things dont truely exist.

Karol Martinez~

1/26/2014 09:27:46 am

Kayla,
I agree that young people aren't good at expressing their feelings when they are hurt. It is very common for young people to hide their feelings when being bullied by someone who is more powerful than themselves. But when it comes to bullying people usually bully others to make themselves feel good, because someone is bullying them. That's why I don't agree with "in a young persons life those things don't truly exist", because I think that bullies are aware of bullying and what they do to others because something similar is happening in their own lives.

Karol Martinez~

1/26/2014 09:27:56 am

Karol Martinez~

1/26/2014 09:28:12 am

Joaquin Barrios

1/27/2014 08:33:18 am

I agree with you Kayla,
And many kids at their age do experience bullying and name calling, but as you said Piggy knows what its like to be bullied therefor he knew what to do so he wouldn't let it get to him. He showed he was strong.

Fernanda Villalobos

1/21/2014 08:49:50 am

The revelation Ralph made about Piggy's name suggests that young people are inconsiderate. In "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding the characters portray the basic nature of young people, immaturity, insensitivity, and the need to become the "class clown" for likability among st a group. Ralph shared Piggy's "real" name to the group, he was inconsiderate of what Piggy's feelings could of been, but more drawn on the idea of being the "joker" or "class clown". Ralph wasn't thinking at the moment, he took the opportunity to make everybody laugh, thus making him more likable. "Him with the shell." "Ralph ! Ralph!"
"Let him be chief with the trumpet-thing." (22) This shows how young people are inconsiderate, they take the side of the person (Ralph) who made a joke out of someones appearance. No one took Piggy's feelings for consideration it was just all a joke, but not to Piggy. In a way it was like bullying, not in a intentionally cruel manner,because the "bully" hasn't yet realized what they had done wrong. Ralph was just messing around, he didn't think Piggy would take the joke seriously. After Piggy confronted Ralph about sharing his secret he knew it did hurt him "and anyway, I'm sorry if you feel like that.."(25). Therefore, the basic nature of young people is being quite inconsiderate, they are too young to understand what they have done wrong or how others might be affected by it.

Jennifer Mijares

4/1/2017 02:59:50 pm

I agree, the boys were calling him Piggy to make fun his his appearance.This is why I think that some kids need to think before they act, they can not tell if it is a joke or cruel attack.They don't know how it would affect that person.

Ethan Adams

1/21/2014 08:51:27 am

IThough most children enjoy to poke fun at each other, they often do not realize when someone is not joking or if they're hurt. This shows the often inconsiderate mind set many children have. Despite Piggy politely asking Ralph not to reveal his name after trusting him with his secret then the opposite being done proves the point further. The other boys often target Piggy because of his appearace. This disproves society's view of children. Sorry this is short, but my battery is about to die.

Joshua Younger

1/23/2014 12:04:05 pm

I agree, the boys were calling him Piggy to poke fun at his appearance, not for what the nickname actually symbolizes to him. This is why I think that some kids need to think before they act, they can not tell if it is a joke or cruel attack. "Piggy" learned that the hard way from his school.

Estrella Garcia

1/21/2014 08:59:49 am

In the book " Lord of the Flies " by William Golding Ralph's revelation is the nature of young people because little kids don't realise that it's going to hurt the person even though they told him. Many young people take many things as a game. For example Ralph didn't know that calling piggy by his real name was going to offend him or make him feel about it. Even though later Ralph saw the mistake he made and he went and apologized to piggy for what he made him go through. Many kids don't realize they had hurt one of their friends by playing around it's the nature to young people they are inconsiderate even though people see kids as little innocent angels but they can be cruel. Like how Ralph shared piggy's nickname.

Shanel Francisco

1/23/2014 11:45:32 am

Estrella,
I agree with your response to this question because it is true that children really don't realize that what they say to others is hurtful. Ralph sharing Piggy's nickname was cruel and it shows how a child's nature is towards other people's feelings.

Joshua Younger

1/21/2014 12:22:18 pm

I believe that young people are not intentionally cruel or inconsiderate, but that they do not think about their actions before doing it. For example, when I read this I felt that Ralph was trying to help, but he chose the wrong response to help. However it could also be that Ralph was trying to have fun, but in the wrong way and he broke a promise to do it. It is just a common learning experience that some kids have to learn more than others.

Lisette Zamora

1/23/2014 12:33:09 am

Joshua,
I agree with this response as it is in a child's nature to take action before thinking. In other words, young people are not intentionally cruel or inconsiderate, for they are not responsible enough at their age to think things through. Society would be much different from our modern world if it weren't for the actions taken without decisions. Like you mentioned Joshua, some young people have to learn that concept more than others.

anders harrison

1/23/2014 06:24:19 am

Are you sure he was just defending Piggy? The evidence in the book suggests that he did it to impress the other boys. After the scene:
"He's not Fatty," cried Ralph, "his real name's Piggy!"
A storm of laughter arose and even the tiniest child joined in."

Ralph seems to encourage the other children to ignore piggy and to torment him later in the text. The apology could have just as easily been an empty apology so Piggy didn't stay angry. Ralph did this so he can keep Piggy's trust.

Cynthia Sanchez

1/21/2014 12:26:13 pm

I think children tend to be inconsiderate and not take the person's feelings into account. But there are also children who intentionally insult and put one another down. This quote from "Lord of the Flies" by William Golding is a perfect example. Sometimes children bully one another in order to get a good laugh from the group or because they foolishly think that the other will think that's cool. The fact that even after Piggy confided in Ralph and asked him not to tell the others he still decided to, shows that people don't focus enough on teaching kids kindness and respect.

Fernanda Villalobos

1/23/2014 08:48:04 am

Cynthia, I agree with your statement, Piggy shared a secret with Ralph and it was very disrespectful that Ralph blurted it out to the others. Piggy felt hurt and embarrassed when everyone was laughing and calling him "Piggy !" People really should focus on teaching kids kindness and respect. It is important for young people to think before they speak.

Iona Martinez

2/4/2014 05:11:42 am

Cinthia I agree with your response when you said some kids say those types of things intentionally to hurt one another but , we will never know for sure if Ralph ment to hurt Piggy's feelings or not.

Eddie marmolejo

1/22/2014 10:18:50 am

Out of personal experience, most children their age are mostly inconsiderate, not intentionally, but out of lack of understanding. When ralph shares the information of the name piggy wishes to unexist, yes, its betrayal, but then theres certain sections in the book that make me feel/think that ralph doesnt understand how hurt piggy is... additionally the group of boys automatically give off a "follower" impression, and having a 12 year old brother, I know that "the cool kid" or "the biggest" is usually the leader, henceforth, jack. When ralph notifies them of piggy's nickname, another possability could be that ralph is trying to be that "cool kid". Now on the other hand, maybe his intention was to be cruel, but there isnt enough information so far, as to why he would have done that. This is usually how bulling begins...

Brittany H.

1/23/2014 08:58:04 am

I agree with that this represents children in a way don't care about others emotions, or how words can hurt another person. But I also think this shows how children need adults to keep them polite and considerate of others. Eventually I beleive I think the kids will realize how important they are to survival.

Iona Martinez

1/24/2014 05:05:40 am

Ralphs's revelation about Piggy's name suggest that young people dont mean to be cruel but , they are just inconsiderate.Young people tend to say things without thinking about the consequences or how it could effect others.Ralph doesn't mean to affend Piggy ,he trys to stick up for him but , he doesn't think about what he is actually saying.I take into consideration knowing that Ralph is only twelve years old he doesn't quite know fully right from wrong .Overall , the young generation is not intentionally cruel just inconsiderate to others.

Asia Shields

1/24/2014 07:41:46 am

I believe that little kids aren't intentionally cruel because they haven't learned other-wise fully yet. Little kids just don't fully understand the concept of mean and nice, until they have matured a little more. Even when they are maturing and turning into adults they sometimes accidentally forget these meanings again. Ralph is very inconsiderate towards the fat kid's nickname being "piggy". At first Ralph laughs at the fat kid, and then another person shows up and calls the fat kid "fatty". Maybe Ralph was just trying to protect the fat kid from being called names, and accidentally tells the person the fat kid's name "piggy" even when he wasn't suppose to. So, I believe that little kids are just plain inconsiderate.

Joaquin Barrios

1/27/2014 08:29:24 am

Most kids of the age that the boys are at are not so much cruel to one an other as much as they are inconsiderate. Many kids, especially guys take the news of something new as surprising and feel that they should tell everyone for the enjoyment and attention of others. But it was very unnecessary for Ralph to blurt out the fat boys real name to others, after Piggy had asked him not to. I'm pretty sure that if Ralph would've told something personal to Piggy, he would not appreciate if he went and the others without his permission, just to make a fool out of him!

Kayla Prieto

1/30/2014 10:52:42 pm

I agree with you Joaquin. I think that if Ralph would have stopped and thought of himself in Piggys place, he would have never told the boys about "Piggy". He wouldnt have liked someone to do that to him so he wouldnt have done it either, but Ralph didnt think befroe exposing Piggy's nickname.

Noemi Galdean

2/4/2014 03:29:13 am

When Ralph mentions that his name is actually "Piggy" it suggests that todays basic nature of young people are that they intentionally try to put other people down and they try to hurt people by bringing things up that are unnecessary. Teens at a young age think that by being mean to people will simply make them look "cool" or look like their stronger or better. For this reason they try to be cruel and be mean towards people. In the story, The Lord if the Flies by William Golding, Ralph puts a character out that many teens today act that way, by Ralph mentioning his real name made him look like he wanted to look cool or act all tough. The fact that Ralph said his real name and the fact that the other boys laughed at that made them look rude and I mean it made a lot of sense because a lot of teens are like that towards many other teens like people around them. When Ralph mentioned that it hurt piggy because it made him feel like he was unworthy, but afterwards Ralph decided to apologize in a weird sort of way by saying it when nobody was around.

Angel Salazar

1/19/2014 11:59:39 am

Ralphs revelation of Piggy's name suggests that young people can be very rude and ignorant of what they say, and sometimes say it just to be more likeable to others.In this case he is making fun of Piggy just to seem cool in front of the other boys and show in a way that he is the leader, in which he is, this far into the novel. I think young people are intentionally cruel to one another just to look or seem cool to people.Ralph is making fun of piggy in front of the boys when piggy clearly told him not call him that name.Someone can't just accidentally call someone a name when they told him not to.Someone does this intentionally not accidentally.

Tony Marquez

1/22/2014 12:52:15 pm

Angel,
I agree with your argument that children can be cruel to one another most of the time intentionally rather than accidentally ,however, would you consider that possibly Ralph was not aware of the cruelty he impossed on Piggy by revealing his name to the group instead of just trying to seem cool with the rest of the boys? Whose fault do you think it is that other boys are cruel to one another, nature or are they born like that? Do you also think that Piggy would get use to being called by the name Ralph revealed the group like the way Daniel Parra ,freshman student, got use to being called "Perra"?

Alejandra Serna

1/19/2014 12:52:44 pm

Ralph's revelation of piggy's name suggest that some young people can often be thoughtless and insensitive about other people's feelings, or probably sometime they aren't trying to be cruel; they simply don't think before they speak .As you can see, children can be very rude at times to each other , but parents are very weak minded thinking that there children are perfect angels but only if they knew that there wrong. In the novel, Lord of the Flies by William Golding, Ralph starts making fun of piggy in front of the other boys to seem cool , but he doesn't realize that his friend is getting hurt by those awful words. I believe that kids now and days are cruel to each other to feel popular because we all know that every little kid likes to get attention from other's , But I think in this case. Ralph starts making fun of piggy to make sure that the other boys realize that he is the leader.

Lisette Zamora

1/21/2014 12:49:46 am

It has become a custom to critique one another based on exterior looks rather than the interior. Society has long been differentiating the ones who seem different often calling them crude names and giving disrespectful treatment. In "Lord Of The Flies" by William Golding, Piggy, the obese child, is looked upon the children as different as majority of the boys in the island are skinny. I tend to believe that the children are being inconsiderate as curiosity dominates their mind. In a way curiosity is part of human nature and it is often a trait that is feared. No one accustoms to change easily therefore the same situation occurred with Ralph. Ralph appointed that it is "'Better Piggy than Fatty."' (25) This shows that Ralph's intentions were not based on cruelty but rather an act of defense for this shows that Ralph's revelation of Piggy's name was not based upon cruelty. It was inconsiderate as Piggy had mentioned to keep it a secret but sooner or later curiosity dominates one's mind and Piggy's name would have been revealed. I believe that young people do not intentionally disrespect each other yet rather fear uniqueness and different. Most choose to make fun of it to fit in as they fear standing out.

Cynthia Sanchez

1/21/2014 12:32:46 pm

I agree that during our youth, we ignorantly base our opinions of others on appearance, and that we are pressured to not stand up for what is right, almost like indirect peer pressure, for fear that we may stand out.

Ali Theorine

1/22/2014 07:43:00 am

I agree, when we are young, we often place an opinion about some one and how they look. Also that some children dont stand up for what if the right thing.

Saralee Arreola

1/22/2014 09:12:02 am

I agree with you. Once we are criticized and judged at a young age, we stay with the thought of it and believe it. I guess it takes courage and confidence to believe in yourself and be proud of your own flaws. Just like how Piggy lets the group call him Piggy and slowly accepts it.

Jennifer Mijares

4/1/2017 02:54:42 pm

Well I believe that It has become a normal thing to criticize one another based on exterior looks rather than whats on the outside. Society in a long time have made fun of people calling them rude names and giving disrespectful treatment. In "Lord Of The Flies" by William Golding, Piggy, the obese child,is made fun of because everyone else stuck in that island are skinny. I believe that the children don't care about the feelings of the obese kid and they think its normal to laugh at his size. In a way it's part of human nature and it is often a trait that is feared. No one wants to change easily therefore the same situation occurred with Ralph. Ralph appointed that it is "'Better Piggy than Fatty." This shows that Ralph's intentions were not based on cruelty but rather an act of defense for this shows that Ralph's revelation of Piggy's name was to make himself look better. It was inconsiderate as Piggy had mentioned to keep it a secret but Piggy's name would have been revealed. I believe that young people do not intentionally disrespect each other yet rather fear uniqueness and different. Most choose to make fun of it to fit in as they fear standing out.

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